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Edwin Veguilla: Welcome to the Malibu C podcast. I am your host, Edwin Veguilla. Today I am with Mr. Tom Porter, founder and CEO of Malibu C and MWI labs, which is a division of Malibu C as well.
Tom Porter: Actually, Malibu C is a division of Malibu Wellness Incorporated. And MWI labs is another division of Malibu Wellness Incorporated. Malibu C is our brand. MWI Labs is a complete private label division that makes products for other companies. So, most people don't realize that this journey. One day I'll tell you about how we started making every product ourselves, and how that expanded into making products for other companies in the world.
Edwin Veguilla: I can't wait to hear about that. And in the last episode, those of you guys that tuned in and listened to the last episode, and if you haven't rewind, go back and listen to it. You actually touched on Australian Gold.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And I'll tell you a little bit of history about how our pairs were intertwined in it all started with a Malibu product and in the same location where we are now as a campus in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Edwin Veguilla: Really? Okay. So, we can dive into the story.
Tom Porter: Absolutely. I look forward to sharing.
Edwin Veguilla: So, in the last episode, we talked about you had just met Deb, which is Tom's lovely wife. She is his business partner. They have been on this incredible journey together. She's an enormous part. I would say, besides you and Doctor Keith, she's the third. She's part of the tribe. So, Tom likes to joke that they, when him and Deb met, and then Doctor Keith Ault, they all kind of got married at the same time because it happened in the same weekend.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And so that's really where this story fundamentally began. And it's funny because in the last, episode, you were talking about how you, when you met Deb, went out dancing, you guys were dancing, your bodies fit perfectly. And then your mind and your body.
Tom Porter: I don't want to overstate the body. It was really. It was confirmation. And then the spark. The spark came before we knew we fit together. That's the neat part. I think a lot of people have the spark, but then when they come together and start spending time together, physically and just in the environment, it may be a spark, but they didn't really mesh. It just kept getting better.
Edwin Veguilla: You guys been married for 34 years now, right?
Tom Porter: Yeah, we've been married now 37 years. So, it is because you made reference in the previous about tragedies. And I thought that was a really heavy word when I heard it. And then as I reflect, we have been through what many people would characterize as tragedy. And in one of them, we'll talk about in this sharing while we're together. But the reality is, because we've done it together and committed to the process together. They weren't tragedies.
Edwin Veguilla: And in most situations, you'll find that people will. The divorce rate is so incredibly high, and the failure of companies is so incredibly high. The fact that you guys have been able to stick together through trials and tribulations, through highs and ups, which you guys will find a lot of these out as we're going through this event. It's a testament to you guys. Love to you guys, this commitment to each other and to the company. And right, I think about you, I think a lot of that is just being able to commit to a person and to a goal. And when you find someone that you can commit to that together. Magic happens. Obviously, magic can happen 37 years later, 37 years later, it's still accounting and just growing together. And hopefully we'll get to 50 more. So, let's talk about, where we left off. So, you guys had just met, you guys went out dancing. Everything was. Sparks were flying everywhere. You meet the Dr. Keith Ault. And then what happens from there?
Tom Porter: When we met, doctor, all, we really liked what he was talking about. And he was setting up, a company that was selling shares to people all over Indiana. It was restricted to residents of Indiana. And it was also, you could buy in at a very low amount. That's how he approached his business. We didn't even have a business. We just met him. There was a reason why I could not help sell the stock officially, but Deb could. And Deb immediately became a stock agent for his company. And I had some contacts and actually went out and we together had friends of mine that put in $1,000. I put in $1,000.
Edwin Veguilla: So, Deb was the one selling the stock.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And we didn't sell a ton of stock. But that's really it happened in parts. And it went on to become, so people in Indiana might remember Nema, Natural Environmental Marketing Association, and it was products. It was under a multilevel. And this was Keith's company. That's what he was doing, was starting a company in Indiana. And he had names, Vida Chlor. It had products for numerous things that relate to what we're doing today, using ascorbic acid as the main ingredient for new ways to solve problems.
Edwin Veguilla: And his first platform that he tried the company on was multi-level.
Tom Porter: It was.
Edwin Veguilla: That's so interesting. If you guys heard the first episode, we actually discussed how you are totally against multi-level marketing.
Tom Porter: And we did not sell any multi-level of his products. Well, let me get to through the process. And remind me when we get to California and I'll explain. We never sold products for him. We had a couple of friends that, because we used it, so we bought it for our own personal use and loved that. Loved it.
Edwin Veguilla: You were like, what is this?
Tom Porter: But I am not a multi-level guy. I'm not going to have my friends and my relatives as who I'm going to be dependent on for my income. Those are the last people I want to be dependent on it for my business. Well, for some people it may work, but that's not the way globally to scale it globally. That's not what I wanted to do.
Edwin Veguilla: And obviously you took it from the direction with your bigger vision, which is what you've built today. So, you met him. You start working, it starts actually selling.
Tom Porter: So we sold some stuff. Then we really weren't very in touch for, the story now is more focused on Deb and myself. So, Deb and I became closer and closer, spending every day that we could spend together. She was the assistant director of the Career Center at Indiana University. I had just had the opportunity to work with the community at Bloomington to lead the development of what became the largest independent YMCA wellness center in the world with cardiac rehab, pulmonary rehab. It was very progressive. It was built out of an initial vision by a man named Bill Cook, who is someone that became and, you know, his model is still what I mentor from. He's the one that told me one of the six heroes and told me, get into manufacturing.
Edwin Veguilla: And last time you remember, you actually said. "We're not really sure if he meant I'm still me."
Tom Porter: Yeah, I still go do it. I said, well, you heard. Go do it on your own.
Edwin Veguilla: And if you wouldn't have heard that if you weren't, why are the way you are? We wouldn't even be sitting here right now. And you guys would be watching this.
Tom Porter: So, what we do, I remember sitting, I owned a little house in Bloomington, out close to the lake, because the, you know, water ski or had a boat, I was right next to the ramp. So literally I was just around the curve, and I had the boat in the water, and Deb's and my courtship was on the boat. She learned to slalom ski on that boat.
Edwin Veguilla: And by you, you taught her?
Tom Porter: Oh, yeah. Well, she learned maybe by watching. I'm not going to tell you that I, you know, but it wouldn't have happened, I don't think, if I wasn't taking her out there. And she watched and she picked it up and became a very good water skier.
Edwin Veguilla: And to this day, because you guys still do that.
Tom Porter: So, we still do that.
Edwin Veguilla: And one of our first conversations, you were talking about how now you actually do it later in the day to minimize your oxidation.
Tom Porter: That's right. Because of the sun and the water and all that. But at that age, when I was in my 20s, you didn't care. I did not care, like water, because my skin was so brown. When I met Deb, we both love to tan. We liked to oxidize. And I think that's something that we all need to realize is just because we like to do something doesn't necessarily mean it's a really good idea, because cause and effect, it's cause and effect. If you are oxidizing endlessly at some point you're gonna look at yourself in the mirror and you're going to be like, oh my God, I am 20 years older than what I should look like because of it's oxidation. All the time. You know, the, the book that I eventually wrote, You're not aging, You're just oxidizing. So, we'll get to that. But I didn't know anything about that at this time. So, I remember sitting, it was in August, the following. We met in June. In August, we were sitting in my front yard in the lounge chairs, 1981. And I looked over at her. I was sitting back, and I looked at her and I remember the conscious thought of, I can't imagine living my life without her in it. So, I knew at that moment I wanted to ask her to marry me. It's a huge moment, right? That was a big moment. The fact that I still remember it shows how big a deal was to be here at, I was going to the Adirondacks for a conference of YMCA executive directors for the whole nation, and I decided, and that was what, a month and a half later.
Edwin Veguilla: Wow.
Tom Porter: Eight weeks later, I was 21, but I'd be 25, six, 27 somewhere around there. 26, 27, 28 I'd have to do math, let's say 28-ish. But I went to the conference and then I made arrangements to fly her. Of course, I was making $32,000. And I had this house, you know, and I flew her. So, you know, I'm making a lot of money doing this. This was when you do a startup of nonprofit or profit, you never really make as much money as your value. And I think many people think they should make what they put in what they're worth. What their value is. I've never had that in my life. I've always had to prove myself before I was able to get compensated for it. And it's taken sometimes many, many years. But it all worked out because eventually I was compensated for my value. So, I arranged to fly in New York City. When I was finished with my conference, I flew to New York City. We met in New York City, and I knew I was going to ask her to marry me that weekend.
Edwin Veguilla: You proposed in New York City?
Tom Porter: So I had tickets to Chorus Line. It was just a new release of Chorus Line. We went to Chorus Line and we both just really enjoyed it. It filled our souls. We both, you know, it was just it was really an experience. I knew afterwards I had it all planned. We were going to the Plaza Hotel, okay, and go to the dessert bar, which no longer exist in the Plaza. And there they have carriages outside where the plaza was. And it's just right at Central Park and I was going to ask her to marry me there. A Central Park ride and some stuff right there. Oh, it gets better. It gets better. We finish our dessert bar. We're having a great time. I know that I'm about to ask her to marry me. And it was early October. We opened the door and this huge gust of cold wind comes in and she goes, oh my gosh, it's freezing.
Tom Porter: And I realized, we can't go stand out there. And me ask her to marry her when she's cold. This idiot. All day Saturday, we did things together with friends and there wasn't a moment it didn't come in. By Sunday, I knew we were leaving in the afternoon and flying back to Indiana. I wanted to do it in New York. It had to be. I had to get it done so we weren't walking. It just so happened we ended up at Central Park, and we were going all around the park and seeing things, and we came to what's called the sail pond. Now, I didn't know Central Park. I'm not someone that does. I've been to New York many, many times, but I haven't lived in New York, so this was kind of a new experience for me. Came upon the Sail Pond, which was really kind of cool. All of these little sail boats that people make, the little ones. And they put on and it's just in a circle. At the end of it is an Alice in Wonderland statue, which is kind of spread out and children play all over it. Well, the next day or that day, the cold front had sort of moved out and now it was 71 degrees. Perfect weather, perfect weather, son. It was California weather. It was beautiful. And we just happened to be standing in front of the Alice in Wonderland statue, and she made a statement about her and myself. And so, I used that opportunity to say, well, because I was behind her, I was just holding on, and we were looking around. I said into her ear. I said, well, does that mean you'll marry me? And the way I tell the story is she coughed, and I took it as a yes. So, we don't know. And I tell that story in front of her and she still hasn't confirmed. I'm not really sure if she said yes, or no.
Edwin Veguilla: Did you pop a ring out at that point, or you didn't even have a ring?
Tom Porter: I know I was supposed to have a ring. Oh, my gosh, this was so organic. It just happened. I'm not a guy that necessarily follows protocol all the time. Obviously, I'm sort of I operate out of my nature, I think, because there was no thought of a ring. It wasn't like I, I didn't even think about having a ring. I didn't think that I needed a ring.
Edwin Veguilla: So, in your graduation, you stand back and you just observe.
Tom Porter: Yes. Think about that.
Edwin Veguilla: Yes. You stand back and you're observing. You propose to the love of your life without a ring, spur of the moment. You have a feeling you're going to find some more of these examples as we keep time.
Tom Porter: Yeah. So, the funniest part of that story is three hours later, we're at the airport, we're on the plane. And I love the way she tells this story that I'm on the aisle, she's in the next seat, and then someone comes. I think it was a woman that sat down, and Deb and I didn't say anything when, you know, it was just that you're getting on the plane, you're getting situated. And she was sitting there and just all of a sudden realized we haven't talked at all. And the plane takes off, and she's looking at a magazine and says, oh my gosh, I love this China. This is the China I want. And we laughed when we got off the plane and thought, I wonder if that person thought we just met and we're already picking out China and they're like, you felt like you're weird. You felt like, wow, yeah, it's a weird experience. But we were married in March.
Edwin Veguilla: So, from engagement to the wedding, really?
Tom Porter: Couple months, it was, well, it was more that. Well, it was a couple of months from when we met, and I asked her to marry me. Yeah, that was October, October 7th, around that time, and we decided to get married in March. We would have gotten married in June when the weather was much better, but her brother was working on oil rigs, and we had to set it around his availability. So, we moved it up to March, which was kind of cold. It's not the really the way we want to remember it, but we realized we were married more for our family. The way we did our wedding was more protocol, more for them to remember. To the point that where we were married, the pastor. We're not even allow to videotape it. And of course we wanted to remember it, but that's kind of how disconnected we, we love the experience. It was amazing, but it wasn't, you know, looking back. Yeah, our engagement was more personal. Our ceremony was confirming our love with our family and friends. So, you know, so we got married in March and it was around that time, you know, to do a lot of tracking back. I told you I came from California where I did my master's at the University of California at Santa Barbara and went to Indiana. But my intent was to go to Indiana and then to go back to California. I never intended to stay in Indiana because that's what the goal from it was.
Edwin Veguilla: It's been Tom's goal since he was a child, literally to end up in California, which is where he lives now and will live the rest of his life.
Tom Porter: And maybe that's a very shallow goal, but I don't think so. But I am a firm believer, and I share this with people often. Be where you want to be. When I fly, and I fly a lot of places, I go to a lot of communities. And what I've learned is if I get to an airport and I don't feel good energy, what I realize is most of those people aren't happy being there. I want to be there. It's sort of their culture and they don't really want to be there. They feel like they have to be there. One thing about California as a whole, one of the things I like, people choose to be there. I feel like New York City is very similar to that.
Edwin Veguilla: I agree that you don't usually just grow up in New York City and stay because you have to. New York City would be it just like California. If you want to go somewhere else, go somewhere else.
Tom Porter: And you know, well, that's so funny because that's actually California. New York had one of the best cultures and friendliest people in the world.
Edwin Veguilla: So maybe that's because statistically they want to be there. That's a good observation. And if I've learned anything from you, and this is huge for everyone that's watching this, to take this, one of the big things that you do differently is that you do things as you want to remember them, all right? It's almost like taking grab of your life and saying, this is my life. I'm going to live it the way that I want to remember it, to remember it's not how I want to do it.
Tom Porter: See, there's a big distinction. It's not me saying, here's what I want to do. I try and I've had to learn this. And let me tell you, I don't succeed all the time. Sometimes temptation, that this is a really good way to handle temptation. If you are tempted to do something a certain way and you question whether is it right or wrong, I would suggest try another approach, go forward and think, well, how do I want to remember it? How am I going to remember this? And then it becomes clear, or it's like you've constantly lived in the future and the present. Does that make sense? Because your future perspective.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. On creating the past. And we call that the present.
Tom Porter: Yes. I mean, high five on that. That's amazing. I loved as the opportunity with the YMCA, the success of the YMCA made national news, especially in the nets are giving you some recognition. At that point, it because the community of Bloomington, Indiana told me, as the guy who had to lead this, I was told over and over and over, Bloomington does not need a Y because there's the other building, which is at the university, which was open to the community. We have a facility for the community. We don't need a Y. So, I had a very difficult time raising money. People don't know what they need until you've built that. But Bill Cook had the vision. It was his vision that he could see the need and wanted to provide that to the community. So, he put up almost all the money. Any other money that came in was more of a gesture of support because Bill was doing it. But that's actually something I try to share. I'll share with communities that want to build Ys and build other nonprofit organizations. Don't try to do it by everybody chipping in. Find one leader that's passionate about the vision and be sure they're going to be sure that it happens and the others will give their support. And that's what I had the opportunity to do. And it was a big success. What we hoped, I hoped that we would generate at least 3000 members.
Edwin Veguilla: What was the goal?
Tom Porter: That was the goal.
Edwin Veguilla: So, what did you guys end up with?
Tom Porter: Between 8 and 10 thousand in a year
Edwin Veguilla: That's a big difference.
Tom Porter: We had a place where we thought failure was almost sure. We were told we would fail, and we opened the doors for an open house in January. And this is I mentioned in the last where hordes of people came in that we weren't expecting. Deb was in that crowd and that she didn't see me. I didn't see her because there were hordes of people. So, I started looking for opportunities in California because one thing that, as we share, I'm a better developer than I am a maintainer, and I know that about myself.
Edwin Veguilla: What do you mean by that? And explain that to me a little bit.
Tom Porter: From any perspective, I am better at developing things. I like to make things I like. I like to build, I like a hammer in my hand, I like, so I like to create. I like to see that. Now, I'm not an artist, so I can't create that way. I can't look at something and draw it. I'm more, organizational or, you know, structural. And I do everything I can to create an environment, and an organization that understands the process of change so that it can be maintained and get an organization to the point. And that's the reason I enjoy teaching my master's thesis, which is the role of the change agent.
Edwin Veguilla: In an organization which we're going to dive into in depth. One of the episodes I feel I really feel more confident today than I ever did that literally. I can't wait for us to cover that topic. That literally changed my whole perspective, and I restructured my business plan. I restructure my approach to how I do things. Based on your presentation on that.
Tom Porter: Oh, wow.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, you probably saved me a whole lot of failure headaches just from watching that presentation. So, think about that. So, I can't wait. So, you have met and so I was looking at the vacancy list.
Tom Porter: Yeah. Because we were getting married and I found 2 or 3 openings of where I wanted to be. I would have liked to have taken over the Santa Barbara job because I left Santa Barbara. I love Santa Barbara. I would love to go back to Santa Barbara. That job wasn't open, however. The Pacific Palisades Malibu YMCA was looking for someone to do what I just did in Bloomington. When I went out and interviewed, another job opportunity came up at San Luis Obispo. Even though the LA Association, because they were part of an association of YMCA where Bloomington was independent, I don't have any network. I just did it. Nobody telling me what I could do should do how to do it. I was free range. In LA, it's part of an association. So, it's all been just like other cities. Usually, it's a part of a network. So, I was in a good situation in Bloomington, but they wanted to take an organization that was not very, developed. It was a YMCA in the town working out of schools and churches, and they have a small building, and they had land that they were leasing, and they wanted to try to build a Y. So I went with that mission the whole time. And to back up, I was looking for the vacancy list. And sure enough, when Deb and I got married in March and it was chilly, and it was a phenomenal wedding. The reception was awesome. And Bill Cook gave us our honeymoon. He actually paid for our trip to Monte Carlo and put us up at the Loews Hotel.
Edwin Veguilla: Awesome guy. What an awesome guy. I got chills just you saying you got that from a friend.
Tom Porter: And what I realized later is he. Well, that was his way of saying thanks. And I really appreciated that gesture of. Recognition without overstating it, but that's who Bill was. So now I'm married.
Tom Porter: I'm looking for this position. I go out and interview, I go up and interview for San Luis Obispo. And when I got back to Bloomington, I got offered the San Luis Obispo job before I got offered the Pacific Palisades Malibu job. So, I was like, okay, at least I at least I can go to San Luis Obispo and get back to California. But that's kind of where you go to retire. It's in your community. But I'm like, I'm too young for this. And in my mind, Deb and I said, if we ever did start a company on what Doctor Keith had done, L.A. would be a better place to be. It's a I mean, everyone's oxidating there intensely. Well, it's not that, it's just a better market. It's better. It's not the market. It's a better place to be hub for business and startup Los Angeles. It's busy. It's just no, it's perception. It's the right place to be connected. There's a lot going on. If you need resources in L.A., everything's there. You can find somebody that can be the guy. That's right, San Luis Obispo, it's kind of a sleepy community, nice community. So, I interviewed in the summer and announced to the community of Bloomington that I was leaving.
Edwin Veguilla: How did they take that? Because you were now the face of that. You were the face of the YMCA.
Tom Porter: I would say what they did is they probably took it as I was 27 years old and you were ready to live life. And I was and I had the most wonderful experiences with those people. They're still my, and Bloomington, still my favorite community in the world. Bloomington, Indiana is right up there for me and for Deb. We love the community, but when you have a goal, you have to make it. It's that's what important to you. So fortunately, in August, the community, you know, it did get announced, you know, pretty big. And what was interesting is someone in Bloomington who saw it contacted me. I think they may have been members of the Y, actually. And said, we have a home in Malibu and we're having problems with the tenants. How much can you afford? And I told them how much I could afford, I was going to make about $43,000. And I said I couldn't afford more than $1,100 a month. Well, they were getting about probably 3000 a month for this because the area and what was happening is this girl was renting and subleasing every bedroom to these bodybuilders, and they had a steroid business going out of there. And so she was she was actually, it turns out, charging them quite a bit of money to live there, but she wasn't paying the landlord and they didn't know that. So as a result, the landlord finally had to evict. It's very difficult to evict in California. She was able to evict them. And we'll get to that after I tell you about our trip out there, because in August we left. We did rent that house. It was we knew we had a place to live.
Edwin Veguilla: What did Deb go to do?
Tom Porter: Deb went to be with me. She dropped everything. She left. She was the first director at that point. And she left. Well, it's she I listen the night we met, it was when. No, it wasn't just that. When I said, I'm planning to go back to California, the next thing she said was, I'm on my way to California. So that was her goal. She just she came from New York, Ithaca, New York, and Indiana was the closest she got a job offer to California. And she felt like physically she was working her way out there.
Edwin Veguilla: What are the odds of that? And one of the first conversations that you and I had, you were giving me bits and pieces of the story. And I literally kept saying, because it was in my mind, I was trying to quantify like how what were the events that led to all this? Like, how do you replicate that? You replicate all of the success and now you know, you can't and you cannot know. But you can replicate some of the habits that he's done. You can replicate some of the things that he's been able to do. But I kept saying luck, luck. You maybe you got lucky. Maybe you define luck. And that's exactly what you said to me. How do you define luck?
Tom Porter: And remember I told you, I said, well, and I thought about. I'm like luck. I said, maybe when you're ready for it. And you said no, and you didn't say no. I said, let me give you another perspective, because that's your perspective. If that's what luck is, then that's what luck is. I just shared with you my perspective and then go ahead and share with our audience.
Edwin Veguilla: It will change my life, and it is not my words. I read these words, and it clicked. It made sense. It's when preparation meets opportunity that listen to that. And it was that simple when preparation. So even though the point I'm trying to make with this, you guys have up to this point and there's going to be a lot more events as we'll sound like, what if, from what I have been prepared that night for the when they met, if he wouldn't have been prepared with everything he's done up until this point, nothing else would have been able to move.
Tom Porter: I would have missed the opportunity.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, he would have absolutely missed the opportunity, and the road would have just not led to this, right? So that's for sure. Wherever you are in your journey and in your path, it is necessary. Support, learn the process of where you are and just understand that eventually you work hard. You're going to have an end goal too. But be prepared. Prepare for it every single day. So that's the point I was trying to make was okay. So back to you. So now we were at this point on your way there.
Tom Porter: So now we were leaving Bloomington. We bought a used Volvo. Silver classic used Volvo. And it was just a nice car. We felt really good in it, and it was a good car to travel in. So, we went down and I introduced a place that was very important in my life and still is to our family. Was a cottage on Perdido Bay down on the Gulf of Mexico. That is where we water ski. But that's where I grew up in the summers. As a child, my family would try to travel from Tennessee every year before interstates. We would pack up into station wagons, cars three times a summer, two times a summer and go down. It was owned by my aunt and uncle, and they shared it.
Tom Porter: So it was a great experience. It's where I learned to leave my hometown and realize there's a world out there. It's also where I've discovered the water and how much I love the water. So, I wanted Deb. We were married now, and I told her all about the cottage. So, we went to the cottage and that was the first time she had seen that. It's just an old, now 120 something year old cottage. Can't even get there by road. You have to get there by an oyster shell clay road.
Edwin Veguilla: Oh, that would be awesome to see.
Tom Porter: Yeah. It is an awesome site. Spanish moss hanging all around, but it's just an old, old hunting lodge. So, which someday maybe you'll hear about in other stories, but now we own it.
Edwin Veguilla: Oh my God, it's part of our life. So, you were able to buy it?
Tom Porter: And we were able to buy it when we didn't have any money. But my aunt wanted to sell it. I couldn't afford to see it go out of the family. So sometime maybe we'll tell that story because that happened in a quick blink. That's a beautiful story.
Edwin Veguilla: The fact that you were able to keep something from your childhood, and then you still have it today. Are you going to pass on to Trevor?
Tom Porter: Oh yeah. And what's really cool about it, and we can get into it, you know, another time with other tragedies when you lose everything which we have done. We realized we still had the cottage, and so our soul was still alive.
Edwin Veguilla: That's amazing.
Tom Porter: Yeah, yeah. So, we went to the cottage. When we left the cottage, we were headed across highway ten. That actually ends right at Pacific Palisades. Malibu. Right in Santa Monica. Highway ten goes from Jacksonville, Florida, all the way across to Santa Monica. So that's the direct route we're going. We took a diversion and went to Houston to see Deb's brother. And spent a night there. As we're driving across country to take over the new YMCA, everything we own was on a moving truck that was going to meet us at our new location. We left Bloomington high as a kite. Really. We were on the moon. We were so excited that everything was perfect. We were leaving. We were going to what appeared to be perfect. So, we were in a great place. As we were driving, I did most of the driving and I know you want me to share this and it's not something I talk about often but you mentioned tragedies. This was probably the first, in this journey.
Edwin Veguilla: How long were you guys been together at this point?
Tom Porter: Two months. Three months. Married? We married on March 27th, and it's now about August 18th. We stopped for lunch. As we were driving from Houston, we had left there and Deb said, you know what? Why don't I drive? And it was like, cool, great time for you to drive. I'll take a break because we drive into the night going across country. You know, I like to get as many miles as I can. I'm not one. Just wants to stop at Hotel quitter. Why sit at a hotel when I can be sitting in my car driving, headed to my future, right? I was excited, so in Texas, we were in, we were out in the middle of nowhere, and we stopped at just a cafe, ate lunch. And in Texas, next to the freeway, the on ramps in most towns, the on ramp is like you're on in cities especially, you're on the on ramp in parts of Texas. The on ramp is just parallel almost to the freeway, and it's a long on ramp.
Tom Porter: So, from the time that we started driving down the on ramp, Deb had gotten up to about 65 miles an hour, 70 probably going across country. She's not a fast driver. You know, she doesn't. She's very, reasonable. It's probably 70, and she already had put it on cruise control. This was the first time she had ever used cruise control because we didn't have cruise control. So, there was this new feature.
Edwin Veguilla: That was 1982. That right?
Tom Porter: Yes. 82. We're in 82. And so, she put it on cruise control and we're going down. And I was in my passenger seat. This was when seatbelts were not a standard. People weren't wearing seatbelt in years. Maybe if you were, but I wasn't, too cool for seatbelts. No, not too cool. But back then it was. I'd never had an accident and didn't need seatbelts. I was a kid when we went to Florida, we were in the back jumping over the seat. There was no order and there was there was no wreck, you know? So that wasn't part of my life. My parents never, you know, we didn't have seatbelts and that wasn't an issue. And as you get into your 20s, if you never had something, you've got to retrain yourself. So, I wasn't wearing seatbelt, and neither was Deb. So, I crank up the AC, open the sunroof. My shirt was off. I had on shorts. I was grabbing some rays. I was oxidized, flying in the car, having a good time. I am high life.
Edwin Veguilla: Having a great time. Woman of your dreams next to you.
Tom Porter: She's driving and we're on that on ramp. And all of a sudden she leans over in front of me, and that's instead of asking me to come up and get it, which, you know, I would have been happy to do. Takes initiative. She reached over to reach in the glove box and pull out a James Taylor cassette. The little cassettes we used in those days. I remember and she was going to plug it in. Well, as she moved over her arm, pulled the wheel slightly. No big deal usually, except in Texas when they because they constantly have to pave over the pavement because of the heat. It gets so hot it's 100 degrees. It was 100 degrees excess that day, August, in the middle of the desert of Texas. Well, the shoulder was probably it turns out, about that far. So, when she pulled over the wheel, the front right wheel went off the pavement and the car is now pretty significant difference. And we're on gravel and she's on cruise control. And she was leaning over so she wasn't even she wouldn't have known that the brake would have stopped cruise control anyway, but she was not at the brake because she had leaned over and it kicked her out of, you know, her position. I looked up and we're headed for one of those reflector lights, those metal with reflector. And I said, oh my God.
Tom Porter: And she did a reaction to keep us from hitting it and pulled the wheel, which is a natural response. But we were still on cruise control, so it kept going. The back of the car at 65 or 70 miles an hour, skidded into that reflector light, and we headed across the interstate into a guardrail at 65, 70 miles an hour. That we should have just continued because the other freeway going the other direction was way over there. And there was a lot just a gully, not a, you know, it's a ravine along when our car should have just soared and we would have drove right into the hillside. Fortunately, that Volvo is who I give credit to. It had so much metal. Have you ever heard the principle that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction?
Edwin Veguilla: Absolutely.
Tom Porter: Because the galvanized steel was galvanized steel and the metal was sturdy gauge metal, the guardrail open all the way. But the car did a flip over on its side on the passenger side, which is the windshield right here. And then went up on all fours facing the opposite direction.
Edwin Veguilla: And you had the sunroof. Sunroof was open. Oh my God.
Tom Porter: Well, what I, we stopped. The world stopped. Neither one of us remember it. We learned something about the human body. If you are headed into death and you have a moment to see it, I shut down and she shut down. I guess we go to a place of denial or if you can do nothing about it. And it's inevitable. But we don't remember it. We don't remember. We know when we die. We remember when the car went. But no impact. Neither one of us remembered feeling the impact. Well, it turned out I felt I had a lot of impact. Didn't know it. I woke up first, car spewing all the sounds of a wreck. Everything you've heard on a movie was happening in my life. Facing the other direction. Our belongings were all over the road. The trunk was completely open and everything that we had brought with us that we didn't want to put into the moving van so I wouldn't get the stuff I show, like wedding pictures that we don't have anymore, gone. So, I woke up first.
Edwin Veguilla: You're without a shirt. Your shorts.
Tom Porter: Deb has this little tank top with her little pump shoes and her gym shorts. Her aerobics. So, she's barely wearing clothes. And also, neither one of us are overly clad. It's 100 and something degrees out there. And so, the air conditioning is working, because I've got the sunroof open. So, wind blowing in our hair kind of. I woke up, she was out of it. I couldn't open my door. Cars were stopping. But it's not like heavy traffic. You're out in the middle of nowhere. So, her car, you know, they saw and they could go by. And then they started going around us. That was interesting. The people who stopped were from the other direction, far, far away. They had to actually hike over. And they did help because they saw the whole thing. They happened to see us go into our tailspin and saw the whole thing. So, they became support. Everybody else just went around us, which I found very interesting about human nature. You have some people that will stop and help and put their own life at risk to help others, and then some they will turn to. I don't even see it. It's not even they just don't see it. They don't see that they could help I guess is what it is.
Tom Porter: We our world changed at that moment. I climbed out of the window.
Edwin Veguilla: You were able to physically move.
Tom Porter: I was able to physically move, but I also I got out of the window, and because I was afraid it was going to blow up, it had all the sounds of blowing up. I didn't know if anything was ignited, but I knew that fluids were all over the ground. I went in to pull Deb out. Well, I knew I was full of blood. I could feel bad, but it didn't matter at that moment. So, I went in there, didn't have any blood on her. I pulled her out, woke her up, hold her through the window, and sadly, I cut her leg with the little glass that was sticking up there. That's the only cut she got out of that wreck. So, because she ended up pinned between her seat and me, she literally ended up when I.
Edwin Veguilla: So, you took the majority?
Tom Porter: The blunt force it turns out I thought I had gone into that windshield on the passenger side when the car flipped sideways. But Deb the next day went to inspect the car with the tow at the tow yard that they had towed it to, and as he took a went around him and say, well, that car, those people died. And, you know, those people lived, right? You know, those people died. And she came upon our car, didn't even recognize it, and said, I bet those people died. And that was our car.
Edwin Veguilla: So, you guys could have died.
Tom Porter: That we should have died that day. Every there was no reason we should have survived that, except we were in that Volvo that for every action there's an opposite, an equal reaction.
Edwin Veguilla: And that's cause and effect. Do you think about that at times, the fact that just cause and effect and the universe, it was we were in enough balance?
Tom Porter: I think, you know, we were prepared enough for that opportunity. To survive it.
Edwin Veguilla: And it's interesting that happens. You made it out, which we can theorize about destiny and all these things, but you eventually get to create this company that helps, millions of people.
Tom Porter: Well, actually, that was a confirmation to take that thought that you have a little further. It was actually the technology that I had learned about ascorbic acid that kept my face, that ended up with such lacerations, I had so much glass in my face that I was still finding it surfacing eight years later. I would think I had like a white head and you feel it and you scrape it, and you look, and you see it shine back at you. I learned over time how long it takes for the body to expire the depth of fragmented glass. My entire face was Frankenstein. I had to have stitches. They transported me to the emergency room of a very small community in Texas. In Texas, it was Fort Stockton, Texas. And fortunately for us, that community had advertised for doctors because they're so remote. And a couple, I believe they were Vietnamese, they had practiced in New York City, and they had had a daughter and did not want to raise their daughter in New York City. So, they answered the ad and they were in Fort Stockton, Texas. He went at my face like an expert. I was told there was another local doctor, that if he had been on call, I would have had him.
Edwin Veguilla: What are the odds?
Tom Porter: This guy's attitude was, man, your face is what I saw every night in New York City because bottles in fights, fights, glass. He had experience. He was prepared for that moment, for the opportunity to really fix my face. Now, he told me I would have to have plastic surgery.
Edwin Veguilla: Wow. And you're 26 at this point.
Tom Porter: 27. So, think about that.
Edwin Veguilla: I mean, I'm 30 now. At this point I'm thinking me a couple of years ago, like you're like, you're young. You have the rest of your life ahead of you.
Tom Porter: Yeah, but you know what? I figured I'll be honest with you, that never entered my mind. That's why most of it was because I, and Deb knows this, so I can say it. I was so focused on trying to keep her from feeling the guilt because I knew that was the difference in our marriage. If she became so guilty, it wasn't her fault that she had never driven a cruise control situation where it was just a, it was the opposite of preparedness and opportunity. It was bad luck. And so, I needed to not focus on it. And when I walked into my job a week later, taking over that YMCA bandaged up everywhere I look like Frankenstein walking in the door. That's not the guy.
Edwin Veguilla: Then you were the creative director. So you had a team reporting to you that you had no.
Tom Porter: They were assigned me, that you've been there running the show, and all of a sudden they got a new man walking in. He's young and it's just all over his face. And what is your story? And that's how it started. And that, you know, became a big part of.
Edwin Veguilla: You mentioned the company.
Tom Porter: It's adversity. It's figuring out, you know, what's important. And at that moment, how I looked was not important. But I went to the plastic surgeon because I was told to, the plastic surgeon told me what we need to do.
Edwin Veguilla: And what did they say?
Tom Porter: They say for surgery, like, reconstruct everything. He would reconstruct it, but he wanted to wait to see scar after everything healed. What he's got to work with. Well, I immediately started on the ascorbic acid, followed by vitamin E.
Edwin Veguilla: How many times a day when you doing that?
Tom Porter: Twice. Twice a day. And just attacking that area. And the results are this. I did not ever go back to the plastic surgeon.
Edwin Veguilla: This is one of the pieces of your story that really gets me almost like it really hits home with me. Because if you've listened to the first episode, I have a humongous scar on my stomach. I'm a transplant patient. I've talked about that. And living with scarring, it's very hard. Especially I cannot even imagine it in your face. And the fact that you had that right there. The technology of vitamin C, ascorbic acid, and then vitamin E, and you thought, let me put it in immediately and you start seeing results. Think about the hundred, if not millions of people that have been in similar situations, but they don't know about it and they don't have it and they don't know that it's right here. You know, like we have it right here. It's available. You know what I mean?
Tom Porter: Yeah. And it is. But that message is we'll get into future discussions. The number of companies that have tried to come after us, they're trying to make it easy. They're trying to make it fast. Yeah, but they're not teaching the technology. And there really is a technology to be discovered. So, I look forward to sharing that. But that was my confirmation and my real experience. Besides seeing it work in like putting chlorine in something and put using ascorbic acid and then it's gone.
Edwin Veguilla: And seeing all these magic shows of all of that, that's kind of secondary. It affects you, but it doesn't affect you directly. As you said, when it becomes you.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And you're right. I couldn't hide the scar. I still have scars. They're part of me now. Oh, you can see them. They're all the way down. I you can see them in my face. The whole way, all the way across. I had a scab the size of a nickel. See? All there?
Edwin Veguilla: Where was the last piece of glass?
Tom Porter: So, you see my forehead? It was here in my forehead. So, you know, that's when the technology became very important. But I was on the mission of developing a community Y wellness center for Pacific Palisades, Malibu, California. What happened was, in the years I was there, two significant things. One, it turned out that the Pacific Palisades Residents Association had one single mission, and that was no growth. They fought me. I didn't know that I was in Bloomington. People just said we would succeed here. The they followed us. We're not gonna let you succeed because you want to build something. My message is. But I want to build a place for your children, your family, for you to have a place for wellness. It's a community center. They didn't care to hear what it was all about. We have a single dimension. No growth. One thing I'm very proud of is in the time I was there, I was the guy that negotiated to move from a lease situation to be able to purchase land, where to this day still that YMCA can be built if that community decides to end it right on the corner of Sunset Boulevard and Temescal. We bought it and I negotiated it, and I'm very proud of that. We did pumpkin patches. Still do, Christmas tree lots, day camps. But sadly, there's no building there, so I'm glad I didn't stick around for 34, 35 years. I realized after a few years I can't change this community. And the chemist doctor all flew out to Malibu, where we were living and offered me the opportunity and said, you're a developer. I've watched you. If you want to start your own company, I'll give you the exclusive rights to the technology. And I was just young enough and maybe stupid enough and naive enough because the year before that or around. Yeah, soon that time, actually, we had our son Trevor, which was now, 1984. So, Trevor was born in May of 1984, and it was a year and a month later that we incorporated this company.
Edwin Veguilla: Let's stop and think about that for a minute. Starting a brand-new company with a newborn. And you had no support. One thing that keeps coming to our mind. In one of our first conversations, you said that you considered yourself not foolish. But I remember the word that you used to describe yourself in and in all your ventures, and I can't remember right now.
Tom Porter: It was at least naive. I could maybe it was naive.
Edwin Veguilla: And you said, promise you that you need some of that to have a little bit of a spirit of adventure to take risks. And I believe that and kind of just go with that and figure it out as you go. And I think that's a trait that, along with being a builder, that I have found in most entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, you love to build, and you have that spirit of it, of kind of all work out interesting, you know, going interesting.
Tom Porter: You know, it's interesting too. You use the word entrepreneur. I've never loved the word entrepreneur. I never associated myself as an entrepreneur. I think it's because I heard about entrepreneurs. Like I would get invited to entrepreneurial groups, events and stuff. And my attitude is, if you saw yourself as or if you went to a group like that and you're calling yourself an entrepreneur, then you're probably not. Yeah, and that's not even close to who I am. So, I don't relate. I think now I understand better what entrepreneur is and what it's referring to. And so yeah, I think I probably do fit.
Edwin Veguilla: You're 100% an entrepreneur.
Tom Porter: Okay. I think if you're a true entrepreneur, you're not talking about it, you're working on your vision, on your dreams, on the things you're wanting to build.
Edwin Veguilla: That's exactly what you've done. And if you're doing it just because you want to build something, yeah, you probably won't succeed. It's got to be passionate about what you want to build. It's not the fact that you just want to build.
Tom Porter: Exactly. You have to do it with love, with care from the beginning and not really expecting an enormous result. Because that's one thing I know you've gotta expect and you think test result on you. Well, if you don't expect the significant result you may quit along the way. So let me let me rephrase that then. Maybe it maybe I don't mean not expecting a result. Not expecting result too quickly. Patients, I guess. So that's what I was. Those rewards come few and far between. And you have to acknowledge them yourself because no one else is. You're going to win it for you. And that's one of the reasons we have been so successful is because Deb has never questioned the decisions that I've made. She never early on said maybe we should stop. Maybe this is too tough. This is too much. She never ever expressed it. Deb has always been in there. Let's do it. Let's keep going.
Edwin Veguilla: Has she been a cheerleader? Has she pushed you constantly?
Tom Porter: Like she doesn't push. She supports. She's not somebody that's pushing me to go. Should I need to constantly go? I'm trying to do that on my own. And I think it's more about, the compatibility, the support, the sharing. She's the person that she gives me ideas, you know, the conversations. She's very bright.
Edwin Veguilla: She, you know, you guys just feed each other.
Tom Porter: We feed each one constantly. That's right. Oh, constantly. I don't know how intellectual it is, but we're constantly sharing. And you know, when you're in tune with your partner, that's huge.
Edwin Veguilla: So, I want to go back to this really quickly, and then I want to go back to Trevor and him and you guys starting out with the serum and the vitamin E, you do that twice a day, right? For how long?
Tom Porter: The rest of my life.
Edwin Veguilla: How long until you saw results?
Tom Porter: Depends on what you're trying to solve. C can solve things that go away in 24 hours. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about product here. I'm talking about the correct ratio of ascorbic acid, the right form of ascorbic acid in the correct carrier. So, there's a this isn't a single dimension thing, right? What I can tell you is that combination of the variables I just shared with you, I have observed from fever blisters. If you if you are prone to any kind of mouth sore fever, blister something must be that it donates an electron to normalize what's happening. But you can cycle that out in 24 hours. If you take the serum or vitamin C serum that is the ascorbic acid. You see, I did not know that what I can.
Edwin Veguilla: The reason I'm asking you is because when I started taking it and remember I internally. I told you my skin was so sensitive that I could not even be out because of the medication I take. And just being a transplant patient like the sun really bothers me. That's immediate. So, it's out for me and it changed my life. How long do you think it took you to start seeing results in the scarring?
Tom Porter: You typically see people realize, but realized I didn't have a before and after. So, I can't really see what I've learned about what I was using it because of the faith I had in it, what I learned about it, what I knew about it. I was using it, but not as a, you know, as using technology. But I wasn't using it to solve something. I was 20 something years old, but I don't need to solve much like I just want to keep using it to prevent. But I attacked my face that way and it's more about, as I said, the results. It what I know about ascorbic acid and the clinicals are really clear. It will speed up collagen and synthesis. That's number one. And your vitamin E is helpful with suppression of scar tissue. That's well documented in clinical studies with the proper ratio. So that's what I fundamentally knew. And that's what I had faith in because Doctor Keith, that's what I learned. I had already known that that's what we were investing in. That's what we believed in. And what we've discovered is that it's so much more than the single dimensions we knew back in those early days, right. So much more. So, when you ask, how long does it take? There are so many different remedies that ascorbic acid can provide, that it's more about what my message would be. Try it on everything because it cannot hurt you. So, we're right in tune with that.
Edwin Veguilla: I did officially my first show with Malibu, obviously. Ironically, San Antonio, Texas, and a lot of the people I like. I knew Malibu C. I knew how huge it is. I knew the importance of everything. But being in a place where there's a line of people where people are coming in and, and literally clear product out and taking everything and upset because we don't have enough product for them. They're asking all these questions. And you're like, and they're like, whoa, I'm in the middle of something enormous that's been around for 34 years, and it's only going to get bigger the more people realize what it can do. And a lot of people ask me that. They said, how long this because the skin care, it's only carried through us through Malibu Wellness, Malibu C. And we had a lot of through salons and through salons and spas. This is where you get it. So, they were like, we hear so many things about it. What does it do? How long does it take? And so, I did a very similar spiel on what you did. And they were like on everything. I'm like, yeah, it'll blow you away. I give my story of my skin being sensitive. I'm like, I have never had anything that I put on my skin.
Tom Porter: And we base everything on science. It's not marketing BS, it's science. Like it works, guys, I put it on. You're going to feel the difference immediately.
Edwin Veguilla: But that's why I was asking because for something like scarring especially, a lot of people came. They had, cystic acne, a lot. And that creates scarring itself, you know, maybe not like it's as deep as you would in a car accident but imagine being a teenager. And we had a lot of people come through asking me about that. They're like, what is the time frame? We've tried everything and nothing works. I'm like, well, try this.
Tom Porter: So, you know, where I first saw that was on Trevor when Trevor was going through his development years and acne prone. There were so many days when he would, I remember him coming down the steps and saying something about his acne and the answer was, are you in the mode? And he'd be like, oh, no. And he'd run back up. And that's how he made it through his youth, teenage years. Is with the C serum. Because he attacked it. You don't want the vitamin E for that. And that's the reason you would. You know, it's understanding the condition. But even if you don't understand the condition, my attitude is just use it. It can't hurt you. And also, if you're going to use it, don't compare it to any other brand. If you're looking to just it's sort of like with hair. Companies can easily provide an ingredient that coats the hair and makes the hair feel incredible. But the truth is it wasn't necessarily that good for the hair. And it just is camouflaging and covering up what the real problem is, which is deeper in there. When you take that out, you don't need to coat it that way because your hair really feels more like your normal hair. What you thought your hair felt like, same with skin. If you're trying to solve a problem or prevent something from happening. That's where ascorbic acid and our technology can change your life.
Edwin Veguilla: And that a lot of people are asking because me being a barber or stylist or like, how do you play a role with all that's like, I love all the products, but one thing that I will be doing this wholly different is the straight razor shaves with this technology and not putting things on the face that are going to clog it up. It's basically having a beautiful vitamin C facial.
Tom Porter: After shaving, I said the results eventually would come in, that I think it's going to be a great way for men to find out what they can do, really, with their face, with our bodies. Let me share with you what's going to happen is every single client is going to tingle. And that's probably the biggest question that we receive is oh my gosh, it's burning my skin. Some say it's burning. It's like it's burning. I think it feels good actually. To get the scalp to tingle most time products use menthol. That to us is not the approach to solve the problem. So, you know, that's where ascorbic acid will tingle. I tingle almost every morning, especially when I travel, because if the chlorine is very high in the shower system, then it's going to even exfoliate that first layer a little bit because it oxidizes. So, when you put your serum on, you actually tingle a little bit.
Edwin Veguilla: But I'm with you. Yeah, it tingles good. And you can actually tell, what I notice is the tingles different here than it is in Texas.
Tom Porter: That would be so. There could be the water difference. There are all kinds of different variables, but from one town to the next you could have more humidity there, a different humidity. But primarily it's the water. Because that's what we're most exposed to every time. And it's always unique, not just in town to town, but within its community. From one street to another. You can have a different water system across the street from the people that are in your neighborhood. It's, you know, if you're on wells, we should all know and understand not only the water that we drink, which is a whole discussion I'd like to have, because I'm very concerned that people are drinking water, and they don't even know what they're drinking.
Tom Porter: That's why I was so adamant that we that both of us would do this podcast. Because another thing from that I learned that I've heard already before, but I learned it and just confirmed it this weekend at the show, we had a lot of students come in and ask questions, and their thought was, why aren't we getting taught this in school? Why are we getting taught about oxidation, beauty school students, students that are going through school to be citizens, like, why aren't we getting taught about, these products and minerals and all the things that this is combating? I said, I think hopefully at some point we will, you know, that's why this is time for playing call. And here's what will probably happen is in ten years, this will be part of all curriculums and no one will even associate us with it that is I hope, total oxidation management if people say to me, but what if people copy you? My response to that is, well, this should be a lifestyle.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, everyone should be following this model.
Tom Porter: That sounds arrogant. I'm not saying it arrogant. I don't mean it arrogant. It's just this is to me truth. I want to share it with everyone. So, they discover it and put it in their own lifestyle and figure out how it applies. Another thing with that was you made a comment to me and one of our prior conversations, and you said eventually in every table there's going to be salt, pepper and C, for the first time this week. And I was having dinner with the team and somebody put a bottle of C right next to salt and pepper, and I was like, no way. I was like, oh my God, there's so much happening. So, I mean, I really think that especially with us getting this knowledge and this information out to people, that they're going to see the value in this, I can't wait to see it just in tables and me to be able to be a part of that.
Edwin Veguilla: Thank you. Exciting. Thank you for being part of the message. I love it and I literally I was like, I'll be the first one to grab that salt & pepper and C and put in my water. And that's why I had to get it for you. So, I hope you didn't put this out in the pepper. So, let's go back to the starting point, or not the same point. Let's go back to you have Trevor and the company starts. So, you decided to start the company.
Tom Porter: Yes. And, at this point I went out and started working. She became actually a recruiter for, headhunter, for jobs. In the computer industry early, early in the game. And she would be calling people that are working for companies, trying to steal them for other companies. She was being, personal and having been the assistant director of the career center, she understood how to talk career. And she used that. She actually created her own company. It was called Careers to Fit because she was teaching aerobics. She was teaching water aerobics. So, she had her own little company on the side that she did shows and consulting on fitness. So, careers to fit, encompassed both aspects of what she was about. But she was also a recruiter, so she was bringing in some revenue.
Tom Porter: When we started the company, we started it in July of 1985. And I remember we had the products made, had some products to go sell. And I remember the first day out, we were actually sitting in the backyard. It was a Saturday, and I just up and decided, this is going to be my first day to go out and sell the products. And I remember the exact people who bought it. And what's interesting is Trevor and his family were just in town. I just showed them those locations this past weekend.
Edwin Veguilla: Your son and his family was just in town. You took him there?
Tom Porter: Yeah. And so just to relate that to that story, I showed them where the first Disney is that bought the products. There wasn't anyone else for many years. When you're talking about the trade show that you just participated in, I wish that my audio in my brain was sounding at the moment because I was sitting here thinking about I was there all by myself for so long and for you to say that that happened and what you told me is going on out there. Because my memory of shows is it's just you. You're just Deb and me and just Deb, me and another employee and a part-time employee who was learning a little bit about it. And we've been through so many levels. It's the old, overnight at what, 34-year-old overnight success. For you to say that people need our products and recognize the need for the product and then it's solving problems for them professionally is the most confirming thing that I could hear. And I celebrate that. And thank you for sharing it because you've filled me by saying that.
Edwin Veguilla: No, it literally was a confirmation for me. Also, I know we're doing the right thing, but seeing it in Texas, I mean, we're here in Indianapolis right now where the headquarters in Malibu C us seeing it so far away from here and how people went nuts. And the following two on top of that, there was people that came to the booth saying, I've been using this since it was Malibu 2000, and asking about Malibu C and asking about you. It was so surreal seeing that I was like, oh, that would be a fun discussion that we can go into the different names.
Tom Porter: Yeah, and I have some of the pictures for that.
Edwin Veguilla: So, I think, I think we're at a good stopping point. Cliffhanger. Obviously, the next episode we're going to talk about when the company actually starts getting more structured, growing. So, make sure you're in tune for that. And where does Tom go? So, make sure you guys stay tuned. Thank you for watching. Tom, thank you so much for it. And that's a wrap. We'll see you next time.
