Edwin Veguilla: Welcome to the Total Oxidation podcast. My name is Edwin. I am your host here with Mr. Tom Porter. Today we have decided to do a little bit of a different episode for you. We're going to tie in some pieces that are still playing a big role, a big factor in Tom's life. And we're also going to tie in some things that he's not quite sure what that is yet, but you will hear a lot of it sounds like to me, this is going to be quite a journey in itself.
Tom Porter: It is. I'm super excited about this episode.
Edwin Veguilla: So, we're going to take this back to episode two. We had talked about some of the key characters that have influenced you and are still changing kind of the way that you, make decisions up to today. Point of which characters are you selecting out of this journey?
Tom Porter: This will be interesting. So, I want to go back to Frankie Avalon. I want to go back to, Annette. What about the Beach Boys? Beach boys and Annette were just part of that culture. You probably heard me say is that I have realized how subtle experiences can embed so deeply into a brain that it can be driving your journey without you knowing it. Because I went in 1965 to my hometown movie theater in June. I had just been to JCPenney’s and bought my bathing suit, so I was ready for summer. I'm 13 years old and I love summer. I'm an oxidizing man. Yeah, that's the problem is I have to learn tolerance. Continue to learn tolerance of oxidizing, just managing all of that oxidation.
Tom Porter: So, what happened was I started watching this movie, and I identified with the lifestyle. I felt like I fit into that. And I sort of transposed Frankie Avalon's character, who keep in mind was still young. He didn't have a job. If he did, I don't even know what it was. He was just on the beach all the time. It was 20s at that point, early 20s and he became a singer, which is interesting in itself. But it was the Malibu lifestyle. And I did not realize the influence that that movie, that character, because when he walked out on screen, he had the same exact same bathing suit that I just bought at that JCPenney’s was. And that's when I decided, this is my story. And so as far as I'm concerned, that character became older and started a cosmetic beauty company and influenced the world with a total oxidation management approach. So, in a way, it was Malibu. And to be honest with you, I think Frankie Avalon still lives in Malibu.
Tom Porter: Yeah, because I saw him at dinner at the Malibu beach Inn, he and his wife. My wife and I were there. Didn't say a thing, but it was a bit surreal at the moment. The man looks great. Yeah, the man looks awesome. I did some research and actually looked at some of the footage and some of the images from those movies.
Edwin Veguilla: Did you see the bathing suit?
Tom Porter: I sure did. And he had a white stripe on the side.
Edwin Veguilla: Correct. It was white on the top, white on the bottom tie and navy blue.
Tom Porter: Yep. Similar picture a solid black and white. So that would be the suit. So that's all, it's that simple. And maybe that's just how trivial I am. Yeah. That amazing how if I had realized that was my journey, maybe I'd gotten there faster. But keep in mind, my journey took me.
Edwin Veguilla: So now we kind of talked about clarity because I really want to revisit that. I have my second question. I prepared some questions because we usually talk and we make this very organic. But the more that I thought about our next interview, the more that I realized there are some key things that we really haven't gotten to yet. We're in the Malibu see headquarters. If you can't see, there's actually the beautiful academy in front of us. I was talking to the team, and I realized a huge part of this and this awesome project that we've been working on is also for the team and for the people that are going to be part of the team in the future as well. So that's why I created a list of questions that I have. These are questions that we're going to utilize for the future, for the present. And it so be a little bit of a glimpse of the past.
Edwin Veguilla: Your perspective on things, which will help us, the listeners. And remember all this great company info and your journey and your heritage that we've created at this point. So, let's see, what is the first question? The first question. This is quite the challenge. So, this is our fifth episode. We've talked in the first couple episodes about your journey up until this point, and you've mentioned a lot of different hard points that we've come through. And the youth and a lot of just painful things that you've gone through.
Tom Porter: Well, I hope I didn't dwell on that.
Edwin Veguilla: No, no, not at all. So, what would you consider in the Malibu history, if you had to pinpoint one moment, that you consider the lowest moment of your career, the darkest moment of Malibu? The first that comes to your mind. And how did you overcome that?
Tom Porter: So. Okay. That's a heavy question. It's been a long journey, for years into windshields, home fire. So, I've had some tragedies through this. If you're asking for a low point. Yeah, I would say that the low point occurred in the spring of 2005. Okay. And at that time, I was the CEO of the company. I had hired and aligned with a man who was in the industry that I had a lot of respect for, and he became the president of the company back in 2001, and shareholder and participant, and that followed the death of Doctor Ault.
Tom Porter: So, what happened was that during the period in those four years, my relationship with the company that the chemist had set up, who was making the products for us at the time in the same location where we are today. The engagement was becoming less frequent, and I could not get the relationship that I needed to keep R&D and to keep so many of the important aspects of developing a whole technology for the world. And so, he was a very good communicator and was someone that I felt could bridge that and help. At the same time, we had an accounting manager who was very controlling, and she decided that she was leaving the company in 2005, announced to me that she couldn't work with this person any longer. And she was stopping.
Tom Porter: So, I hired a gentleman to come in and just look at our books to understand where we are and what kind of person do we really need in that next level. This president of the company and myself, you know, interviewed, and he found him. And this guy was excellent. And so, I was coming back. Remember I was commuting then, still as I am today from Malibu and came back here and had a meeting with the gentleman that was reviewing our books. He had asked for a meeting of the two of us, really, the three of us. And he proceeded to tell us that we had a loss of just under $1 million in the company. And he recommended bankruptcy. I didn't know that. So, you faced bankruptcy like you looked at it in the face. He actually told me that's what we should do.
Edwin Veguilla: I did not know that. So you could have lost everything.
Tom Porter: The company would have gone belly up, whatever that meant. But I didn't really entertain it. Unfortunately, right before that, I received literally within a month before that, I had received a call from this president who told me that that the bank had closed. So, I lost my supplier. I lost all of my connection to manufacturing at the same time, within the exact same four weeks that I had that adjustment on the books. And then what was interesting is the day after I received that announcement from this third-party accounting expert, I asked the president of the company that we get to have that meeting on Tuesday, and this was Wednesday morning, and I had a list of things I wanted to ask the next morning. And I went into that meeting and said, well, I'm interested in what you're thinking. And the response was, I think it's time for me to retire. And I said, well, when do you think you should retire? And he said, Friday. So, all of a sudden, I'm also left with all the responsibility. Are we going to make it ourselves? We now have been formulating forever, been working with the company, but haven't actually been executing that aspect. We've been educating and they make it. It's our brand, our formulas, our discoveries, technologies with them, with R&D. I mean, all was amazing. All right. And Dilip, who worked with Doctor Ault, who is still part of our team here we are 35 years going into our 35th year. And Dilip has been part of this journey the whole time. So, it hasn't been a solo journey. He was with that company and then, you know, became part of Malibu. So that was the lowest point. And it was years later that we ended up coming back into the facility where all of it was made, when Dilip had a dream. And that dream was Doctor Ault said, this is where we should be.
Tom Porter: And we were then open to the idea. And this campus has become a real campus, a team of individuals that are striving for common goals. And it all happened from that dark moment.
Edwin Veguilla: That's crazy how you were able to kind of turn that around!
Tom Porter: I mean, this long journey going, it's 35 years in July.
Edwin Veguilla: What do you consider would be the highest moment, the highest, most pivotal moment of Malibu history? What do you think that would be?
Tom Porter: I don't think we're there yet.
Edwin Veguilla: That's a good answer. Oh, that's a good answer. I mean, you research anything with Malibu and the things that it's accomplished and the fact that you still think you're not there, that's crazy. So good. So, if you had to pick one, you can't even pick one.
Tom Porter: I would say that the point that we turned. I guess the next day, that next week you would consider would have to be the first day of what became the most important big change in the history of the company. I'm a firm believer that the higher the highs, lower the lows and peaks and valleys life. Right now, for example, I can feel that I'm getting to a very high point, but I follow a very low point with the tragedy, the loss of, you know, in the fire house and everything. But that's the fun ride.
Tom Porter: I was talking to my wife about the question, and I said, I bet you that he's going to say Annie Humphrey said, I think that's probably the most pivotal moment of my career, because my understanding was from, from you and I talking, that that's what helped take me on risk level. Those of you who don't know any Humphrey was a huge part of it. Also, soon, she was a known. She was an owner. She was one of three owners.
Edwin Veguilla: So, share with our listeners the story of how she played such an influential part with Malibu. I think that's so funny that you would bring her up.
Tom Porter: She's been on my mind this week. I don't know why. It's crazy. But Annie was not just the queen of color and color education. And she absolutely dominated the world of color trends, color technique for the industry and representing Wella and was amazing. And so at the same time, she was an owner of Vidal Sassoon who took her business very seriously early in the 90s. I don't know exactly what year, but early 90s, I sponsored and presented to the International Chain Association our technology. I was up there talking technology to a group of owners of chains that are strictly corporate businesspeople. They don't know a developer from a neutralizer. And this is chains of salons. This is the salon industry, okay?
Tom Porter: And these are early. These are, you know, the JCPenney regions. But they're mostly business executives and I'm sitting here explaining to them why their salons need to understand total oxidation management, why it's important to know the relationship between the water, how to address that, how to educate. There was one person in that huge audience, and she was a short blond woman with bangs and glasses.
And she came up afterwards, and I don't know what words she said, but what I heard was, I understand she got it. She got it, it made sense. And what she did, she was very subtle, though, and she had no real platform because she was working for Wella. She couldn't talk about our products. She could only talk about our products on a one on one.
Tom Porter: Okay, so we were her secret. And my understanding is. And you can verify if I'm correct on this, but I love this story that Mary with BTC, who has really influenced this industry in some positive ways, along with one of her associates, went over and interviewed Annie Humphries in the UK. And if I heard the story correctly, and it may be the first time Mary even acknowledged or recognized that Malibu C might be a player in the industry because, I think she asked “so, Annie, if you had your choice of any one product on a desert island, what would it be?”
And her answer was Malibu C Crystal Gel treatment. And I found that, you know, quite a complement. And I fortunately was in Britain just about four years ago and had the opportunity to go to lunch. There were two magazines in the UK that wanted to interview Annie. She understands total oxidation management, and she saw so much difference in her color, her performance.
Tom Porter: And she's as passionate as I am. And she's still the queen of color. But she's no longer active. She's enjoying her life. But we are proud to have someone who respected and used Malibu C because she got it. So, Annie Humphrey, if you're listening to this, thank you to you and helping build this unbelievable company. So very grateful for that.
Edwin Veguilla: So that's a heck of a story. She's one of the biggest players ever. And I hope that she continues to be relevant because I'm learning from interesting conversations in the last few days, some of our other, icons in this industry who have, already passed on.
Tom Porter: I'm finding that people don't even know who Jerry Redding is. A man who was one of the most important catalysts in this industry. And I'm finding that his name is not being mentioned anywhere in the education, and that is so sad. But when you say the word Jerry curl, when you say the word Redken, when you say Nexus, that's Jerry Reddy.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. It's just amazing to me how fast we can lose our heroes.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And that's okay. As long as we have enough heroes that we can model after. But it is sad that so many of those stories that really influenced others are passed on. Fortunately, Vidal is still, you know, he branded, the locations.
Edwin Veguilla: Yes. And that really has helped sustain his legacy.
Tom Porter: Yeah, yeah. Which is, amazing legacy as well.
Edwin Veguilla: Yes. It is. So, I want to take a little bit of a different direction with this interview, yesterday I was talking to the team about the direction of where we're going to, you know, take some things. And I had a team member when we were talking about these interviews. I get a little choked up about it. And two of them got a little emotional when we were saying this is part of your legacy. We're talking about your legacy and how you build offices and how this is going to be so important for the future of Malibu and, and Malibu employees 50 years from now.
Edwin Veguilla: I wanted two messages from you today. So we're speaking to you directly, and I'm going how many years into the future? Years into the future. We're going to go to the present first. If you had to give advice or give a message to the team right now, I mean, you have an unbelievable team.
Tom Porter: Malibu C is the people. It is the technology first. And the people who are making it available to the world and helping educate the world as to what it is.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. And when you when you think of the foundation, you know, Malibu C, you started all this and going back to the other episodes I was listening to over the past couple of days and hearing you talk about being by yourself and shows, picking up things, cleaning things by yourself, going and doing door to door to sell. All the things that you've had to do and encounter, and now having this unbelievable team of people that love and respect you guys. Especially when you're talking about when you see them get serious. Like when we're talking ten years in the future.
Tom Porter: Did you tell them I'm dying?
Edwin Veguilla: No, not at all. Not at all. But in a way, we all are, you know? But you're right.
Tom Porter: Well, I'm closer than most going back to that, especially on our team. But I'm talking about within this vessel. Within the body, you know, within this vessel. And keep in mind, that's much of my discovery, is I was so focused for so many years on the energy, and the spirituality. But I read a book, The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. That shifted my life. And what's strange is, once I realized that the search was so common by us all, and we try in so many ways to find it. Yeah, I started getting peace with that and started focusing more on the vessel that I'm traveling in. Yeah, and that's where total oxidation management comes from. So, you know it's super cool. So that changed my perspective yesterday. And it made me really realize we have to make sure that on our sessions and on this podcast that we take a second and acknowledge them because you're just as big of a part as you are.
Edwin Veguilla: It's a view as they are, you know, it's almost like a living body. Yeah, you've seen the head. They're a huge part of that. And then thinking of the future, I want people that join this company 20 years from now to be able to look at this and see your unbelievable history and get a message directly from you. That's immortality right there.
Tom Porter: I appreciate that. You wanted me to share a message now and then. I'm not sure what I…
Edwin Veguilla: If you had to give your current team right now, either advice or message a message from you, what would that be? What would that message be? We'll start with that and then we'll go to the future here in a second. What would be your message?
Tom Porter: Well, I think the message that the team does hear from me more in more is that they are now part owners of this company. That's amazing right there. Deb and I chose an exit plan that included a movement to allow the employees to have a stock ownership as an employee, stock ownership plan that the US government makes available. And it's brilliant. And I think what my message is, it's always for 30 something years been, it's our team, guys. We're all in this together. There were no dividends. Deb and I neither one ever took anything out of the company except a salary and any compensation that was appropriate, just like the other employee.
Tom Porter: We have always treated ourselves as employees, but we knew we were the owners. Ultimately, at the end of the day, along with some other shareholders that helped us along very early after we started hitting some opportunities, and then we had a challenge that we needed some additional money. And that's when the cook relationship got even more involved in helping finance that challenge, to get past it one time, that was probably three, four years into the company.
Tom Porter: So, what I would tell our team today is helping all of us together realize what it feels like and looks like when you really do own the company. Yeah, that when the employees are really the decision makers and that they must raise their standards as to who becomes part of this company. Because first, we happened to be here in, the fall of 2019 when the economy in the US was excellent. And so, the labor market is very, very difficult. Right now, as I often say, we're sort of at the bottom of the barrel because people have jobs. They have jobs out there and those that don't are choosing not to.
Tom Porter: They are doing what they're doing. So, to find the right team members is very important. And we are growing and growing pretty rapidly. And also, we must be very deliberate in our growth. And that's one thing that we have rehearsed for years is the role of the change agent in the organization. Each person is trained when they come in to the company to understand my perspective of the different components of an organization.
And if we're going to do change, we got to do it deliberately. So that's probably the message today.
Edwin Veguilla: That's great. So, accountability.
Tom Porter: I actually, after you ask the next question, I want to go back to the change agent because that's one piece that we've touched on a little bit through the other episodes, but it's so important. It changed my life. I mentioned in one of the episodes how it changed the direction of how I do things, and I want to go in depth with that because that's really going to help people. It's going to help you. The ones watching this and going on your own journey.
Edwin Veguilla: So the second question after that is if you had to send a message to future employees, future team members, future Malibu C members, even if it's people that are just consuming the product, you know, they bought into oxidation management, they bought into you, they bought into everything you felt right. What would that message be?
Tom Porter: Just because we can make it doesn't mean we should make it. We have become experts at formulations. We feel very confident in our knowledge and experience in using wellness ingredients. Well thought out, within regulatory requirements, FDA, OSHA, we have a lot of structure that now sort of guides manufacturing.
Tom Porter: 20 years ago, there was so little regulatory. I am not sorry the regulatory exists. I think it was necessary. I think that the beauty industry, there's been a lot of myths, a lot of lies, a lot of marketing that has been going on in the beauty industry. And I feel that we have countered. We are a different approach. We are about solving problems in not hype, just in technology. So, you know, I feel like, and I'll have to say in that regard in the future, I think one of the best things that did happen to us besides, you know, as I told you earlier, is what you know,
Edwin Veguilla: What are some of the best things?
Tom Porter: Probably the internet was the best thing to happen to us in my lifetime.
Edwin Veguilla: It's crazy to think that you, when you started the operation, there was no internet. That's crazy to think about.
Tom Porter: None. And there were no, there were very few computers, big computers. We were working with big computers. And the fax machine became a new reality, right around the time we started the company.
Edwin Veguilla: Wow. So that's mind boggling. That's crazy. Now I can go to my phone. Malibu app right there in there. The world is so much faster.
Tom Porter: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And thank goodness we operate with the knowledge that change is going to be part of it. And we have a model for it. I think that's probably one reason we survived all this.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. There's been so much change.
Tom Porter: Yeah. But we're still the same company. And that would be the message to the future is stay true to the message. It's a consistent message of every product. Compliments and supports using either the same technology or supplemental technology to the ascorbic acid form of vitamin C. Yeah, and that's the Malibu C, having been that very first vitamin C used externally and manufactured those products. And we still are the story. But we we're not the marketing hype. We don't do a very good job of bringing attention to ourselves. We're not loud. We don't scream. We need to be louder. We need to understand how to scream. But fortunately, through the internet, the internet is looking, for solutions.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. People are searching. They need to know. I think you're the one who said this to me. And I've been quoting you. Is the what is your why?
Tom Porter: Yes. What is your why? Absolutely. What is your why? And you said to me, Tom, we understand your why. And when you said that it helped me more clearly understand fortunately a new perspective because unfortunately, my generation and some generations following me didn't ask why.
Edwin Veguilla: No, not at all. They were brand loyal. If they were told something, they believed it very gullible, and they really didn't have the resources to go ask the questions very well. Now the internet provides that. Unfortunately, still a lot of the older generation still doesn't go and ask the questions. They still don't. They still believe it because it's the way it's always done. It's the way it's always been. But your generation, you and others, there were people, obviously in the older generation that were enthusiastic to learn, but it's more about the majority.
Tom Porter: Yeah, I'm finding the majority of the young people want to know the why. And that's exciting to me. And the why so important even when you broke down, if you guys see this beautiful color of Malibu C I didn't understand why that color even was the option.
Edwin Veguilla: Like, if you think about it, you could have gone with so many things. When you look at ascorbic acid, it's white. It's white crystals, right. So, it looks white. In my mind I'm like the technology base and basically the foundation is ascorbic acid. Why is the logo not white. And then when you explain and then getting to talk to you and understanding your background, at the end of the day, all this became because of your love of water and how everything kind of combined.
Tom Porter: It's because actually Deb came upon and sort of discovered the color and the PMS assortment. Yeah, it had just become a new color because it wasn't a PMS color. We couldn't call it out and use it in marketing. It's exactly what she was visualizing and then found. The timing was perfect. And I do love the concept of Malibu, you know, and it goes in in line with what we're solving. The technology is huge, but the technology fights against all the stuff that's in the water. At the end of the day, it goes all back to water. You know what I mean? Well, it goes back to oxygen or oxidation and water.
Tom Porter: What we have learned is when water dries on anything, it's oxygen on top of the air, which is 23% oxygen and it speeds up the oxidation of anything. So, anything that you can put in the desert, something where it doesn't rain. It takes a long time to rust. But you take it to a part of the country where there's a lot of humidity. But even then it’s wet, dry, wet, dry, wet, dry. That speeds up oxidation. So that's also a lesson to us in our beauty regimen in the salon. You know, when you hear people say, well, is the blow dryer damaging? Just except that is an oxidizing process. So fundamentally, yes.
Tom Porter: Don't hide it from yourself thinking that you're not doing damage. It's overly oxidizing. You're just you're drying the water that H2O quickly if you let it air dry, it would not have the, you know, the oxidation when you ask me, for example, when does it go from oxygen to oxidation? I would tell you in general terms, when there's a spark. You don't see the spark, but it's when that little combustion occurs in chemistry and the reaction wherever it is, whether it's on metal, on your hair, on your skin, whatever material, physical material we have on this earth, it will oxidize. It's our goal to try to slow the process down on every level, whether it's hair, scalp, skin.
Tom Porter: So, It's everything. Yeah. Let's go into the change agent.
Edwin Veguilla: Oh, let's go into that because I've been I've been dying to know more about that. I've obviously read the presentation. I watched the videos change everything that I've had to do because of that. So how do you feel the change agent has shaped and molded everything you do?
Tom Porter: You know, let's talk about that. Well, it's not even the change agent itself. What that was, is that came out of my master's thesis. I had a goal of revolutionizing the educational system in the United States. And the way I wanted to be part of a movement. And so, when I tell you this, you're just not going to believe how radical thought is now. So, taken for granted. And that is what I wrote most of my papers about what I felt the influence and impact media was going to have on all education in the future. I still believe that teachers should be regarded not as the resource of information, but the facilitator of information. They should not even be expected to learn everything and then regurgitate right? They need to learn along the way with the children and be part of the exploration, not necessarily be expected to understand every aspect of it. I feel that it's up to the researchers, those who feel that they have information, to put it in such a way that these facilitators then can choose which is our textbooks or our curriculums.
Tom Porter: So that's essentially what that is. But I think we put too much responsibility on our teachers and blame them, which in a way they get terrified of giving wrong information so they won't even talk about something. Yeah. Total oxidation management in education. We've got many instructors that make it their whole curriculums and build around it. And you've got others that won't even talk about it because they're afraid that students going to ask them something. We want to release them from feeling any responsibility. The burden is or your responsibility is to help motivate the learner. To want to learn it and to make it available to them. If they don't get it, if they don't engage with it, then you need to determine at what level do you need them to pass the test. If it's going to be a question on a test, then it comes down to, well, let's at least get them to understand it to that point. Right? But you know, my message is it's more than the process of change. It's more about stability, because the whole purpose of change is to bring stability to an organization.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. The difficult thing right now is with almost every company.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And almost every organization is there's so much change going on in our world that I think those who have figured out the process of change are going to survive much faster and much easier than those who do not adjust well to change. But the goal is stability.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. And that's where, you know, even at our highest level in our US government here in the United States and really any government around the world, we're all trying to bring stability to our world. And yet we seem to thrive in chaos and change. It seems to be part of our nature. So, I think that if we can get back to striving to use change, and especially in an organization, we need to be able to change, but the organization needs to have consistency.
Tom Porter: And it's starts with every organization starts based on techniques. It's something that you're doing whether it's a service, whether you're on the phone, it's a technique. You're doing something and you're being paid for it. Fundamentally, when you tie those techniques together, that's a process. A process is when you tie different things together. Now it's a whole process of getting something done in the salon. It's a service. There's a service. I, as far as prepping the hair, did a crystal gel. I rinsed the hair. Shampoo with un-do-goo. Those are techniques when you tie them together. And do your service. You've got an entire service. And you call that, color service and whatever it is. Then in every organization, once you know your techniques and your processes, you get to choose your approach. How do you want to spin it? How do you want to look? What do you want to do with it?
Edwin Veguilla: Use exactly the same products. And have a different approach and will be completely different. You can have an avant garde in a traditional salon. And then just down the street, barber shop. You're all using potentially the same products. But your approach is unique.
Tom Porter: Yeah. And so, you are different. Once you have all of those things in place, you can start defining your structure and you understand better, how you can actually draw it. You're at a point where you can do an org chart, you can do a site plan. Everything can become physical, you can put the things on paper, and that means you have a real organization.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, a menu is structure. Anything that exist and you can document. That's the structure.
Tom Porter: Yeah. So, my message is to understand and make it deliberate. When you're going to change something in an organization, are you changing the technique? Are you changing a process? It may affect some techniques. Are you changing the approach or are you changing the structure? And if you're changing the structure, that's revolution because you better think out if you just go in and completely change, you better already have predicted and understand the process that, you know, how is that going to affect the morale and the approach to what we have as a culture?
Tom Porter: And are these processes still going to be operating the same way? Did we think that out clearly? And the techniques, it can mess everything up in your organization. And that's how a lot of companies have gone out of business. They revolutionize without seeing I mean, even in our current politics in our government leadership, I think there have been a lot of decisions that have been made by changing structure without even realizing, the tariffs are a very good example. I don't think it was very clear and thought out as to how's that ripple effect going down line effect, you know, the farmers and the manufacturers and the end user. I think it was just we're going to do it. And whatever the fallout is, the fallout is, many people respect that approach. And oftentimes that can work. And we'll see where this goes. I can tell you that it's been a rough ride as a manufacturer. And to forecast, predict, it's still unknown what the variables are. So that's an example of, of if you look at the world through the role of the change agent. And treat yourself as a potential change agent.
Tom Porter: Another word for a change agent is an influencer. But in a different aspect than just digital influence. You know, expressing my opinion, you can actually, in any organization, help influence change by doing it deliberately. And I think that's what I try to bring to organizations is better understand the process and hold workshops where people are identifying and sounding them out together in team meetings so that they're setting their priorities and they know what's important, what my next priority is for change and how long realistically is that going to happen, and what are the things is it going to affect?
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, because it's basically what I took from it. It's almost like when I think of the presentation, it's almost like the bone of a body or almost like the foundation of a house. And what it really helped me with was just really like quieting down all the other like, use of things that I thought were super important that were not, you know, and it helped me organize step by step kind of what I need to do to get the direction, which is a change, the direction that I wanted and ultimately the outcome that I wanted out of a situation. So that's what helped me. So how long have you been teaching now?
Tom Porter: Well, I wrote the master's thesis in 1977.
Edwin Veguilla: Wow. So relevant still today. But it's still unfortunately burned.
Tom Porter: Yeah, it was burned. Well, all my presentations that came out of. It's just one thesis. I never even thought about it being important. Yeah, it just became something I live by it is what it was. It was no different than the song. And I live my life the way I want to remember it. It kind of ties in. I like to be deliberate, and I needed, you know, and again, it may be my simple mind and I'm probably as much a picture learner, probably more a picture learner because I need to conceptualize things very simply. And your point about it helps get rid of the clutter. I think that's what I needed. Yeah, was to try to find the bones of the organization because understanding organizations was very important to me. You know, that was something that I wanted to be able to do. I wanted to work within organizations to be effective, to bring about change and development.
Tom Porter: You know, as I think I've said, I'm much better at developing than I am maintaining because I like to be part of the process. One of the biggest things that I learn from, from you in this whole process, too, and this from the change to everything you do. It was almost like an end goal in mind. You do it with purpose. So, and going back to how do I, how do I want to remember that outcome that I'm searching for? If you have heard any of the prior episodes going back to your wedding, going back to your graduation, going back to just these key moments in your life, it's almost like you thought about it prior and you make decisions based on that. The changing is a perfect example that it's like, what? What is the outcome that I want out of the company, out of this person, out of me, myself. And it's 100% accountability. It's like accountability for your actions and the cause and effect. If you boil it down, you just do the same thing. It is cause and effect, accountability, preparedness, preparing yourself, which we've talked about before, preparing yourself for having the opportunity for it is, you know what I mean?
Tom Porter: So make sure that you get the outcome that you're wanting out of your life, and you can control a lot more than we can.
Edwin Veguilla: And that was one of the biggest things that I wanted to touch on right now in this very special episode that I wanted to record with you today. So, my next question, I'm going to pull it up because I want to make sure that I don't miss a single question that I had because these are really, really important.
Tom Porter: You've asked some very powerful questions.
Edwin Veguilla: Deep, right. So, my next question for you, Tom, is I've been dying to ask is what is your next step? What is next for Tom Porter? You've written a book; you have a global company. You have an unbelievable family. Gorgeous, unbelievable wife. Like, what's next? What what's the next thing that you want to do?
Tom Porter: The most important thing now is what I spoke if earlier to ensure that our team, as an ESOP, has all the techniques, the procedures, the approach and the structure in place so that when I am no longer available, when I'm no longer relevant, when I no longer can contribute, that they have all the tools in place to be able to not just operate, but soar.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. And grow. And yesterday I heard you mention your passion about curriculum building and being able to lay out those structures so people can follow that. You think that's something that you're going to dabble in…a little bit more creating curriculums and building?
Tom Porter: So, I've been doing that forever. Yeah. I am still, interested in pursuing that. I am very interested in a curriculum that is more based on total oxidation management. Bottom line. Yeah. It's that the curriculum itself is from a foundation in that every, everything within the curriculum is based on that because it's, it's fundamental. So yes, I'm interested. I do not think that I am going to lead the content development. And so that's where, you know, I've got to set priorities. And so, if that occurs, it will be fortunate for me because I want to do that. But will it generate money for the company. Maybe. Maybe not. Yeah. We already have a curriculum. It's a good, solid curriculum. I'm still trying to observe and understand what's happening because when we talk about curriculum, it's a curriculum for both.
Tom Porter: Consumers that want to know more about our technology. That's something that is ongoing. That curriculum is being built and it's happening at the next level. I think what you're asking is more about the curriculum for professional, licensed professionals. Correct?
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah, I just mean curriculums period. So, oxidation management curriculum like when you learn the 34 years of like there's so much knowledge, there's so much information within this company that I know there's already a curriculum. My question is, are you going to like create more of that so people can learn more that will continue to generate more content?
Tom Porter: And that's really what it's become. I think the word, you know, maybe I'm even I need to abandon the word curriculum. Possibly, because it's really about content. That's what the word is. So, we're going to continue. You know, what's happening now. What's so exciting is now consumers, but mostly licensed professionals, they're sharing with each other. They're educating each other. They're showing each other before and afters. Social media is where it's happening. People are realizing, oh my gosh, just with using total oxidation management, look what I can do.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah.
Tom Porter: The magic that they're creating the solutions they're providing. So, you know, I think it's more about do we want more content. Yes. Am I going to be the resource for the content? Probably not. So, I think if we wanted to go forward, if we can see that the licensing of the professional cosmetologist institution shifts and if the information is sought from a different location and we choose to build a platform for that to help not only learn the trade fundamentally, that's what we're doing.
Tom Porter: We want you to learn the trade from a total oxidation manager perspective. But ultimately also be able to pass any test in any state that would allow that licensed individual to practice the trade. Now, with the trends going to do away with licensing in states. Europe has just as an arrogant exclusivity about hairdressers even where they do not have license really.
Tom Porter: Absolutely. Maybe in there deeper they're more committed to the industry than in our country where we have so many booth renters and the industry is just fragmented. So, yes, there will be some kind of recognition mission that the consumers will want or that area will require, even though it may not be a cosmetology license, there is a credibility. Everyone pretty much went to a school, went to a trade. I love the whole art of working in the salon before you even get out into the streets. You know, the problem is we can't do the same mentoring programs. The Department of Labor is requiring that if you're in there, you can't just observe. If you're working, you need to get paid. There's no more volunteer and internship apps that are really legal, but by hiring new entry level students that salons can train. I think what's happening to salons is they no longer trust that they'll stay. They train them and then these individuals that are so wonderful go out and open their own, booth or, chair and they lose them.
Tom Porter: And I think that's something that could be, that's a whole other discussion that I think is very relevant. And very interesting that because I do feel that that trend could change if the IRS decides to look at our industry and the individuals and ensure that they have business license, that they have their resale license in addition to their cosmetology license, the truth is, the cosmetology license may actually become less important than the resale license and the business license.
And right now it's the cosmetology license. And many of those cosmetologists and institutions are not even reporting their taxes.
Edwin Veguilla: Right. That's very true. And that is one of the questions that I was going to ask you is so you've been in this industry going on 35 years. You've seen so many things change. What are some of the things you think will happen in the next ten years? What are some of the big changes that you can foresee already happening? Because you've been everywhere. You know, you are global. You travel, what are some things that you think will happen in the next ten years in this industry?
Tom Porter: Well, I think one, I don't know if it will happen, but I think there's a need for the IRS to hold our industry accountable, so that we elevate, again, our level of standards. I am concerned that what that will do in some respects is create more people going to change, and we will lose the creativity that we have gained from the independence. I would hope that we can help independents to realize how to be successful and be legitimate and create a viable business, and build more salons organically. But realizing that, that reminds me of a plumber. That if the plumber is all by himself or herself because they want control, they want to come and go when they want to. They want to work when they want to. What they need to realize is as they get older, they don't make money unless they do the job. And what's the old phrase, work smarter, not harder. I think that at some point we all reach a, we may be incredible artists, but we do want more freedom to do what we do when we want to do it. So, I think that the individuals need to take a real hard look at their career path. And, so in the next ten years, I think that our industry is going to be, as professional salon industry, it's going to be a very viable service-based industry.
Tom Porter: But already the retail is secondary.
Edwin Veguilla: Meaning licenses will be gone.
Tom Porter: I don't care. I mean, I care, and I fight for the license. I think that what I see globally is there will still be standards set. So, what I talk to the legislature and explain to them why I think licensing is important. So but I don't it's not I hear the sky is falling around that concept that oh my gosh, we're doing away with licensing. What's going to happen to our industry that it's just not a reality.
Edwin Veguilla: Gotcha. Yeah. Well, that makes me feel better. You know, I'm saying that helps me kind of understand a little bit. I didn't even know that other countries had already gone in that direction.
Tom Porter: They never got there. They never went there. Many, many, most of them just never went there.
Edwin Veguilla: So what do you think about product? What do you think is going to happen with product? Because that has changed dramatically over the like going to the past diversion a huge thing. I mean that was something that you've been battling forever. What do you think will happen in the future now with product, the manufacturing?
Tom Porter: The concept of diversion doesn't even exist anymore. It was said to me by an educator that I have high respect for. When I asked him, how is it that you are, you use Redken color? And yet just one block away from your salon is a grocery store with Redken on the same products on shelves that you're selling in the salon. All right. And he looked at me and almost with an inquisitive eye, saying, ever since I've been big enough to walk into the grocery store, when my mom took me into the grocery store, Redken was on the shelf. So that's not abnormal for me. And all of a sudden I realized that diversion is an old concept.
Edwin Veguilla: I have heard stories, and then I might be getting I might be getting diversion mixed up with maybe no reliable manufacturers, because now I think I'm getting it right.
Tom Porter: I've been fighting for stories of you fighting and for stories of you, and I'm still fighting it to other countries. I just returned from what I was going to say and going in there physically yourself and saying unacceptable. And we actually think about that. We virtually put G.P.S. device on many of our pallets that leave here. We want to watch to see exactly where it really goes. Because we have found that some distributors who have unfortunately established trusting relationships with us, we have learned that we cannot trust them and we it, it is, unfortunate that it messes up the channels of distribution.
But it has more to do with the line. We have a deliberate, perspective. And we need the salon. We want the salon. The salon needs us. It doesn't mean that our products cannot be available somewhere else. Unfortunately, it was the salon owners and the professionals that actually were the first diverters. They're the ones that would go into a wholesale store, take the easy way out, buy the product whenever they got an order online.
A lot of husbands in garages. Because the wife could buy it half the cost. They would think that by the time they make a little bit of they can make 10 or 15%, they made money. And so, we started there. We found a garage here in the state of Indiana when we tracked where the address was, and we sent someone to that location as an investigator.
Edwin Veguilla: And sure enough, what do you do in that case? You tell them to take it. Do you cut the head off the snake?
Tom Porter: We go to whoever selling it to them and explain. You told us this isn't the channel of distribution that you would be making our products available to.
Edwin Veguilla: And then you don't provide them with any more product.
Tom Porter: We did. It was the distributor that was selling to them without even realizing it.
Edwin Veguilla: Got it. And then what do you do with your relationship? You move on?
Tom Porter: I think most of our distributors are even more adamant than we are the importance of protecting brands and the integrity. But I think most of them are doing it on marketing, their product really doesn't need to be in the salon or not in the salon. It's a marketing ploy. For us, our technology does it. When you really have a serious problem, or if you're doing any service on the hair, especially in the salon, you need heat. You need the proper application of our products to prepare that hair, to be sure that you're getting the very best result, that it's going to last the longest it can, and if then we're going to try to remove it again. We need the heat. We need the tools. So, we need the salon. And the salon needs us. So, we'll never not be a salon brand. It doesn't mean that we're any longer going to expect the salon to retail all of our products, because what we learned is first of all, most of them don't even have the money to be able to just hold products available for whoever comes in the door and ask for and sell it to sell a product.
It's difficult to manage that retail process in every client now want something else.
Edwin Veguilla: A lot of people don't realize you that products have shelf life and a lot of the probably a lot of the processes. We got to get this out before the product goes bad. Which shelf seems pretty long?
Tom Porter: It is.
Edwin Veguilla: Yeah. So, one of the other biggest questions that I had for you was, I have really two big more questions for you left for discussion. So, I'm going to start with this one, which was, you are such a busy guy. I mean, you literally have traveled everywhere. There's a Malibu C Academy in Greece. You have been literally places fighting diversion. You bounce between Indiana, which is what we're here right now, and Malibu, California. What are your big like? What is your biggest advice to all people is watching all of us. How do you keep yourself organized? You know, what are your biggest like biggest like pointers, tips to trust yourself okay.
Tom Porter: Trust yourself.
Edwin Veguilla: All right. Trust yourself.
Tom Porter: Trust yourself. That you either can respond in the situation appropriately, understanding what your purpose is, or you can get clarity to try to understand the situation you're in so that you can then trust yourself to make the right decision. And it goes back to all the other things we just talked about. Maybe your life where you want to remember it. Cause and effect. I see, you know, I, I don't mind the change process, so I guess traveling is something that is change. Constantly changing. But I will say as I am, as I become older, I just and just recently I saw, I think I'm beginning to realize that I may not be as good of a multitasker as I once was.
Edwin Veguilla: That's interesting.
Tom Porter: Yeah. I think that I, have become more deliberate to realign and maybe because as we've mentioned, the fire it through so many variables on me over the last year or during some of the most accelerated growth in the company. So, I think that it's made me aware of overload potentials and how important it is to fortunately rely on others who are capable to make decisions and not put myself in a position. If I don't need to be involved in that decision. And there are people who I trust, then it's a trust issue. Trust yourself and trust others around you.
Edwin Veguilla: Okay, that's good advice. So, in the last episode that we recorded, we discussed that we were going to go back to signs. I don't know if you remember that, that we talked about like some huge signs that you've had in your life and it really hit home with you when you were talking about the sign of walking into what is now, you know, Malibu C headquarters and seeing the apron.
Tom Porter: Doctor Keith. Oh, it was Dilip that saw the apron.
Edwin Veguilla: Sorry that he saw it. So, what have you had any other signs? And then I want to share a sign that I had with you. Were there any other signs in your life that you can that you can share with us that have help you, kind of give you a little bit of, like, peace or this is the direction we should go. Have any other that you can remember constantly?
Tom Porter: Yeah. I use the word indicators okay. And I operate on indicators. I receive signs constantly. So, you know, the most recent that I think about, was actually a sign on our new home where, we decided not to rebuild, which was exactly what we had intended to do. We had a beautiful contemporary home that had been, completely renovated, everything new. It was just great to see the ocean. I unfortunately, we lost it in the fire. So, then we are designing and have design the new facility, the new home that's going to be very Malibu modern and when I realized that probably we would be just as, financially, just as sound or better off if we just go buy another house and sell that land and not go through the process of rebuilding.
Tom Porter: Because, we're still developing and building a company, and have other priorities. And when we drove into a driveway and saw this experience, there's what we saw. We saw signs all around us. But walking down next to this very nice rippling waterfall, just a small waterfall. And I looked over where the yoga platform is, a little yoga platform. I mean, it's there for me to get calm and dead, to just to focus and looked at the magnolia tree and there was this bright flower that had just recently bloomed. And Deb loves magnolias. And I was with the realtor and I said, watch this. You see that flower when we call Deb down here to just look at this, you watch and see if she sees that flower. She's going to say fierce is a sign. This is an indicator. Well, I looked up and said, honey, come here. I want to show this platform to your wife. And she came down the steps and Daniel is there standing with me. And she looked and she's admiring and she looks over and she looks up, and she saw that flower and she said, guys, this is the message.
Tom Porter: This is the house.
Edwin Veguilla: That's so cool.
Tom Porter: So, we're constantly operating out of signs. We feel that, living in this universe, if you pay attention and you get as connected as you can, and that has a lot to do with trying to be calm and in balance as much as we can.
Edwin Veguilla: I have found that that, when you when you think of how the universe works and how life works, you can automatically like think, oh, that's not true. Like science don't really matter. And I have learned, if anything, that I've learned intensely over the past year is that trust your God and science really do matter. It's something in our brain that we probably already have in there wired that when we see it, you're like, okay, this is truly what I want, and this is really where I should go with what I wanted to share a sign that I had with you.
And that's what we're going to close with today. So, we talked about all the signs that you've had and how that's still played a role. So, a couple in I've mentioned following the first episode, I mentioned that I've how long I wanted to meet you. And I came somewhere. So, when, when I came to the, the first time I came here to the Malibu C headquarters to talk about product and development and all that. Two months prior to that, I had a young lady that used to work with me that now is a part of the team, and she had mentioned kind of because she knew that my one of my genes was to eventually build a product line, and she was basically saying, you really need a great mentor, you really need a good mentor.
And obviously I know about you and in the whole process, I've always thought, yeah, I remember that day prior, like, I really just need someone that can help give me a little bit of guidance and can give me a little bit of their story. I kid you not, I get emotional talking about it. So, I walk in here after I had no even no idea that you were really so active with the company. No idea of that. And I remember walking in to just talk about product with Malibu C the company, didn't even know you were active. And I just saw the picture of you in that magazine, and I picked it up, and I remember saying, I hope to meet you one day and I got it on camera.
Edwin Veguilla: And I said, I hope to meet you on that. And so like, this is how important he's the founder. I hope to meet him one day because I've looked up to you forever. And I remember leaving from there and talking. I was like, if I could only talk to Tom, if I could only pick his brain and understand what he's gone through and just learn more about his story, that would be life changing for me. And now we're doing this. And that moment for me was a huge sign that what I was really looking for at that moment wasn't the product line, the universe guiding me in the direction view it was. I was looking for a mentor. I was looking for you, and it connected.
Tom Porter: Well, I feel blessed that it's really a great story. I appreciate that we were drawn together because you have been a gift for allowing me, especially following the fire and so much of that, this unique timing probably reflecting, which is what you have given me the opportunity to do through the series of podcasts, have helped me see it from a little more objective perspective, and it's probably been very helpful to my healing, to my going forward. And so, it's nice that we can, be a gift to one another.
Edwin Veguilla: Oh my gosh, it's been, the moment I met you because I was like, I was terrified when I was getting ready to meet you, we were like, you know, all the things that go through your mind when you're getting ready. Our energy is so insane, you know. And all I could keep going back to was the image of me holding that the magazine with your picture on it and telling my wife like, wow, if I could just get a moment with that.
Edwin Veguilla: And now we've had great moments, we've had amazing moments, and we've been able to capture them for you guys. So, on that note, thank you so much for this episode. Thank you for this journey. This is Edwin and Tom Porter. We'll catch you guys in the next episode.
